Comments on: Best Modern Second Basemen http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/ baseball with a hint of lime Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:22:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: Josh http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1088 Josh Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:15:54 +0000 http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1088 BTW, a quick look at Jackie Robinson suggests he may have been a 8 WAR player at his peak (49-52). Over those four years, I have him averaging 4.2 Batting Wins; he averaged 649 PA, so he gets +2 WAR there. His fielding is unknown, but he was a great athlete, and both Win Shares and BP's system like him. Let's call him + 0.7 Wins in the field. He was at 2B all 4 years, so no positional adjustment (probably). He was a great baserunner by all accounts, so maybe give him + 0.4 Wins there per season. That puts him at an average of 7.3 WAR over a four year period with what I think are reasonable assumptions. Then consider the fact that he didn't break into MLB until he was 28 because of circumstances beyond his control, and I think he's much closer to Morgan than any of the other second basemen listed here. BTW, a quick look at Jackie Robinson suggests he may have been a 8 WAR player at his peak (49-52). Over those four years, I have him averaging 4.2 Batting Wins; he averaged 649 PA, so he gets +2 WAR there. His fielding is unknown, but he was a great athlete, and both Win Shares and BP’s system like him. Let’s call him + 0.7 Wins in the field. He was at 2B all 4 years, so no positional adjustment (probably). He was a great baserunner by all accounts, so maybe give him + 0.4 Wins there per season. That puts him at an average of 7.3 WAR over a four year period with what I think are reasonable assumptions. Then consider the fact that he didn’t break into MLB until he was 28 because of circumstances beyond his control, and I think he’s much closer to Morgan than any of the other second basemen listed here.

]]> By: Jim http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1087 Jim Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:12:46 +0000 http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1087 I like to think I am sabermetrically inclined, but, tha said, I don't give a damn what the metrics say about Alomar's fielding. I watched him (on TV) in hundreds of games when he was with the Jays, and to this day I've never seen a better fielding 2B. His range stood out then far more than his DP ability. I like to think I am sabermetrically inclined, but, tha said, I don’t give a damn what the metrics say about Alomar’s fielding. I watched him (on TV) in hundreds of games when he was with the Jays, and to this day I’ve never seen a better fielding 2B. His range stood out then far more than his DP ability.

]]> By: Sky http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1085 Sky Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:12:45 +0000 http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1085 Josh -- I look forward to attacking the Darrell Evans graph. I've done Jim Rice and he's basically Alan Trammel. I'm guessing that's less impressive compared to other left fielders than compared to other shortstops. MLBFan -- I was somewhat surprised by Alomar's low fielding totals, too, although I've heard rumblings that he was always overrated. If he was especially smooth turning the double-play, that's not something reflected in the range stats. Josh — I look forward to attacking the Darrell Evans graph. I’ve done Jim Rice and he’s basically Alan Trammel. I’m guessing that’s less impressive compared to other left fielders than compared to other shortstops.

MLBFan — I was somewhat surprised by Alomar’s low fielding totals, too, although I’ve heard rumblings that he was always overrated. If he was especially smooth turning the double-play, that’s not something reflected in the range stats.

]]> By: MlbFan30 http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1084 MlbFan30 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:36:14 +0000 http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1084 Alomar has the same defensively value as Kent? I remember watching him in late 90s-00s, and he never seemed that bad. I;ve always thought he was above average. I'd like to know what other fielding metrics say on this. Obviously GG's don't mean "the best" And sometimes they make big mistakes, Jeter, but they will correct themselves (such as him not winning last year). But Alomar had 10GG. That has to mean something, right? He was talked about as a great defensive 2B, the best DP combo with Visquel. I really don't get how he could be negative value all those years Alomar has the same defensively value as Kent? I remember watching him in late 90s-00s, and he never seemed that bad. I;ve always thought he was above average. I’d like to know what other fielding metrics say on this. Obviously GG’s don’t mean “the best” And sometimes they make big mistakes, Jeter, but they will correct themselves (such as him not winning last year). But Alomar had 10GG. That has to mean something, right? He was talked about as a great defensive 2B, the best DP combo with Visquel. I really don’t get how he could be negative value all those years

]]> By: Josh http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1081 Josh Mon, 18 Feb 2008 03:55:23 +0000 http://skyking162.com/2008/02/2b-or-not-2b/#comment-1081 Bobby Grich is in the Darrell Evans "most underrated players ever Hall of Fame" right between Arky Vaughan and Dewey Evans. A sabermetric hero ;) Biggio and Alomar have very good defensive reps. I'm surprised to see that they rate below average for their careers. Ripken is an interesting case. A few great seasons, about 15 above average ones, and some hang around seasons when everyone was paying attention to him. Also, his two best seasons were about a decade apart. Bobby Grich is in the Darrell Evans “most underrated players ever Hall of Fame” right between Arky Vaughan and Dewey Evans. A sabermetric hero ;)

Biggio and Alomar have very good defensive reps. I’m surprised to see that they rate below average for their careers.

Ripken is an interesting case. A few great seasons, about 15 above average ones, and some hang around seasons when everyone was paying attention to him. Also, his two best seasons were about a decade apart.

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